Proprietary Quote by Ramani (PQR):
"Life : kicks you in the ass, and kicks you in the *cough cough*, depending on how you decide to face it"
Note: The author does not assume responsibilty for the consequences of reproducing his work. Or simply put, dude if you think this is funny, either you cannot think, or you need to think again.
I was on the phone with an employee of the company I am thinking of working for. After the usual 'Do you like your work?' type questions the conversation meandered into discussing a very weird issue - big name schools like MIT and Caltech have among the highest suicide rates in the US. In MIT the windows in the dorms are made so small that it is barely possible to look out, let alone jump. There are no grades for the first year of college, and if they notice that you might have done badly on an exam, you are escorted back to the dorm and put on watch. Serious stuff.
Oh well, me being me, I had to wonder about the classical chicken and hen problem, does MIT drive you crazy or is it because most people who get in are so crazy that either they are suicidal in the first place or seeing them you want to kill yourself. Then that guy then asked 'Mr IIT' (me) how it was in IIT. I told him, that we guys are smarter, so smart infact that, we have realized that instead of killing ourselves, its healthier for you to kill everyone else. Think about it. Adolf Hitler did cause a lot of carnage, and it would have been better for everyone else if he had killed himself pre-carnage instead of post-carnage, but he sure had a fun ride with his secret police, concentration camps and razing of assorted cities!!
Jokes apart, I wonder why this is so. Isn't it strange that people at the highest level of achievement are the hardest hit by failure? Or is it natural ? The fear of failure is the reason why they tend to be so driven to succeed. Actually, if you think about it a bit, it doesn't help! Things only get worse! Your expectations of yourself, and hence your definition of failure (performing below expectations), are pushed up a few notches, so the next time when things dont work out it hits much harder.
"Life : kicks you in the ass, and kicks you in the *cough cough*, depending on how you decide to face it"
Note: The author does not assume responsibilty for the consequences of reproducing his work. Or simply put, dude if you think this is funny, either you cannot think, or you need to think again.
I was on the phone with an employee of the company I am thinking of working for. After the usual 'Do you like your work?' type questions the conversation meandered into discussing a very weird issue - big name schools like MIT and Caltech have among the highest suicide rates in the US. In MIT the windows in the dorms are made so small that it is barely possible to look out, let alone jump. There are no grades for the first year of college, and if they notice that you might have done badly on an exam, you are escorted back to the dorm and put on watch. Serious stuff.
Oh well, me being me, I had to wonder about the classical chicken and hen problem, does MIT drive you crazy or is it because most people who get in are so crazy that either they are suicidal in the first place or seeing them you want to kill yourself. Then that guy then asked 'Mr IIT' (me) how it was in IIT. I told him, that we guys are smarter, so smart infact that, we have realized that instead of killing ourselves, its healthier for you to kill everyone else. Think about it. Adolf Hitler did cause a lot of carnage, and it would have been better for everyone else if he had killed himself pre-carnage instead of post-carnage, but he sure had a fun ride with his secret police, concentration camps and razing of assorted cities!!
Jokes apart, I wonder why this is so. Isn't it strange that people at the highest level of achievement are the hardest hit by failure? Or is it natural ? The fear of failure is the reason why they tend to be so driven to succeed. Actually, if you think about it a bit, it doesn't help! Things only get worse! Your expectations of yourself, and hence your definition of failure (performing below expectations), are pushed up a few notches, so the next time when things dont work out it hits much harder.
20 comments:
True! Bigger achievements = bigger loss in future upon failure. Its just that with every single achievement our value for ourselves goes up tremendously. But, i dunno y but this negativity of failure is soo powerful, that it knocks down al those million achievements of the past. I just dont know why humans r built this way. Failure, and living up to the expectations of a second person is the most powerful drive one can have! i agree on tat one.
As for IIT grads, i kno they r quite successful(somehow they alwys end up being)... but i think they r far too hardworkin. (posin problems in social life) This is sumhow how it is. I feel like women always play second fiddle to their first wife(work). watsay IIT?(tell us how u look at da world wit ur rosy tinted glass)
cough cough? hehe! no comments!
They call the academic environments at MIT, Caltech etc "pressure cookers", with seriously tight assignments, deadlines, etc (just ask Ravikanth aka Studboy if you want fundaes on this ;) ). And greater pressure => greater stress => greater nervousness, anxiety, etc.
Second thing is that everyone who gets in are used to being super-toppers and all of a sudden they are average.
Third thing is this highly curious theory that smarter people tend to develop more quirks of individuality (thats code for saying they are weirder). Dont know about the truth of that, but if it is true, it might help in explaining the suicide rates in combination with above two.
The Buddha once said "Desire (or as some people say Attachment) is the cause of all suffering" .
The people in MIT are there because they desire success (however you define it), sometimes more than the average jock. And during their stay they are attached to success. Therfore as the Buddha says : There will be more suffering ! Q.E.D
Anyway factual inaccuracy is: There are no grades in the first year and not the last year !
hey..more than desire itself it is the lack of multiple desires..if u desire different things you can never really fail completely. hi da. how r u?
Interesting Read on sports of all things but quite relevant ...
(http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hruby/051122)
to quote
In his book "The Progress Paradox: How Life Gets Better While People Feel Worse," former Page 2 contributor Gregg Easterbrook notes that while average incomes have doubled in the past 50 years, the percentage of Americans who describe themselves as "happy" remains constant. What gives?
Part of the problem, Easterbrook suggests, lies with our heightened sense of entitlement, with our penchant for dwelling on minor ills while ignoring larger goods. Such is the essence of the Uncanny Valley, and perhaps of most sports nostalgia, too.
Think about it: the Good Old Days weren't really that good -- not when African Americans weren't allowed on the same fields as whites, when baseball players were basically indentured servants, when NBA players wore shorts that more or less resembled hot pants.
Nevertheless, we cling to the past.
The connection : At the highest levels the imapct of small mistakes gets amplified and hence the manic depression.
[divster] hmm...you seem to have a lot of gyan on IITians....oh well that is true most people who come into IIT busted their ass to get in..so they were never the very social type...atleast most of them..
I wouldn't say that..but it is true that most people in IIT missed out on the 'normal' 11th and 12th with all the classes and exams...
Many do catch up though :D..
[prashanth] i agree..especially with your second point..the same phenomenon also holds in IIT..especially in CS..where everyone in class IS some kind of superstar..but you know someone has to be first and someone has to be last..
It's quite a humbling experience..
Even here in UIUC I have never experienced the same kind of competition as in IIT...Not so sure if I will ever..
Maybe if I go to MIT or something..where all the IIT toppers congregate..that would be something!!
I don't think quirks of individuality..but extrememely successful people tend to be perfectionist..they cannot tolerate the slightest flaw or failure...small mistakes don't really affect your life such..but if you want to be absurdly successful..they might..or you might think so..
[jigar] read it again. i said first year!
[sarath] hi! i am good. hmm..multiple desires ?...then isn't it likely that there will always be one or more desires unfulfilled..i think the key is not to push expectations too high..even if you expect to do well..don't take it for granted..then it may not hit you that hard..
[jigar] i think how happy you are is somewhat related to how you are doing with respect to others. though everyone might have a lot more money now, the relative positions are still the same. earlier 4 square meals defined happy because most couldn't manage that. today everyone has enough food etc. Maybe dressing up to the latest fashions or owning a fancy car would define happy.
manic obession with success means manic depression when failure hits!!
[intern] we are waiting for your comments!
[jigar] i would agree with your good old days funda. we reminsice about our college and school days. you know things weren't that great then. we were worried about the future. there was uncertainty. we were a whole lot nerdier or whatever. but now in hindsight it all looks so simple and well laid out. you would probably look back on your days in UIUC when you are in your job!
[divya]it is really weird how humans are so wired to 'succeed' when all around them they see successful people who aren't really that happy and getting there involves all kinds of tension and anxiety. i think it's some kind of genetic tendency. to survive one must be proactive. this visualization of non-existent happiness in the future is one way to do it!
[prashanth] that is true. the pressure cooker effect. i think many who get there are used to that kind of pressure, but you know it has to explode some day. if you set your goals to high you will fail, if you set your goals too low you are underperforming, so you need to set expectations correctly. easy to say hard to do! letting success get to your head is all to easy!
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If, Rudyard Kipling
Hhhhmmm, now I am commenting here after a long time, I refrian coz most others have words that are far more intelligent than mine can ever be!!! :-) But well, the topic kinda touched a raw nerve!!! :-)
and I don't know about IIT/MIT or whatever (Maybe its far beyond my league) but I happen to think the issue is not quite focused only on big colleges, in general, not just in academics, but overall the worst kind of failure is when you don't live up to your own expectations!! It hurts the most when your material success doesn't quite live upto your images as you see it yourself....
Am i making sense? maybe one should not start getting philosophical when discussing topics far too close to your own life! :)
Somehow I feel compelled to reply to that comment by Madhura:
...most others have words that are far more intelligent than mine can ever be...
Hello!! Snap out of it! Don't get into such an inferiority complex. Everybody is capable of being smarter than anybody else.
...maybe one should not start getting philosophical when discussing topics far too close to your own life!
On the contrary, I think the only time one can get seriously philosophical is when one discusses a subject close to one's own life :)
Govind here. Too lazy to create an account.
It is too obvious that a pyramid is by definition tapering towards the top.
Ramani said:
Isnt it strange that people at highest level of achievement are the hardest hit by failure?
I think failure happens at all levels in the pyramid. However, in above you are probably saying face it at higher levels is more depressing. People at higher levels are the ones who have been successful so far, and as a consequence are not prepared to/ used to face failure. They are just too used to being successful in their endeavours, and therefore, yes it is natural to expect them to be hit harder by failures.
Now that we are talking about success and failure, for a while I have been thinking about the yardstick/metric for success. "What does it mean to be successful?", "does high success necessarily imply high happiness?", "If not, then why not?". And finally, what is it that we are striving for - high success or high hapiness?
[ramani] be right back! little busy with work!
Hey Ramani,
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=59223&headline=IIT~Kanpur~student~found~dead
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?ne
wsid=59223&headline=IIT~Kanpur~student~
found~dead
Tats not a case of suicide, tats indian corruption showing its ugliest head at the wrong moment.. thereby murdering an innocent to save the faces of ten other guilty. Causin ripple effect throughout the country... and will be politically handled.. in the same corruption way.
-divster
This is related to a something that crossed my mind this evening as I sat in the kitchen and listened to my daughter watching "America's Next To Model" in the next room. I got to thinking about what it must be like to be a model. They strive and starve themselves and base their entire life around something as fragile as their looks knowing that even if they get to the top it will only last, at most, 20 years. What must that be like when they are conidered too old by those who choose what "beauty" is this year. I imagine that the people who get into MIT and other top school, or excel in sports feel they are different from a very young age. I'm sure that their parents push them (some lovingly and others not) to succeed and improve themselves. I would think that would put a lot of pressure on a self image to think that success is the only option. If you fail something after years of that, what good is life? You know, if you work your entire life toward something to the exclusion of almost all else and everything you do is working toward a specific goal (that may not have been your own in the first place) and then to fail at the only thing at which you feel you are better than average, what's left?
Not being an overachiever myself, I cannot understand it. I have pity for those who feel stressed out enough to kill themselves over this. I don't think it's their fault. I admire people's ambition and dedication to a goal. But I wonder about the dubious righteousness of it all. This is, in my opinion, just like with the model who builds her life around being a picture of materialistic beauty only to find herself one day hating the image in the mirror because it suddenly seems to be making a mockery of her life; or the boxer who has to have a family member feed him pudding for the last 40 years of his life because of the brain damage that was inevitable in the only thing he was good at.
[madhura] I refrian coz most others have words that are far more intelligent than mine can ever be
I don't think anybody is particularly smart over here, so feel free to comment :D. What say? :D..
Even if others have words that are more intelligent, why should you refrain?
Listen to Prashanth!! You will be surprised, but thinking of doing something, and going through the motions of doing it is 90% there.
[intern] I totally agree with you!! Success is great if you enjoy the process, if you love what you do, are consumed by it and your success is a by product of it. I think most highly successful people are like that. You can never excel at something you don't like!
[govind] i don't think so. just because you are successful you aren't going to be happy. and you don't need to be successful to be happy. i think the success loving people love the chase, love to face challenges, love the excitement of the process. i think thats what drives them, rather than the final result, though that is also a factor i am sure! atleast for me, i feel happy in life only if it's going by, fast. i can't take boredom. i can't take routine. in IIT, i used to be soo tied up with everything, but i got a strange rush from all that work. i also know others who love to have a well laid out, easy paced life. guess what you are comfortable with i guess.
[intern] here i am. been pretty tied up with all kinds of end of semester projects and other fun stuff. dec 13th. freedom :D.
[anonymous] who is that ? kirthi? i think thats the only person i know who comments anon on my blog!!
hmm..looked like he had been murdered...strange..
[hero] I would think that would put a lot of pressure on a self image to think that success is the only option.
I think you hit the nail upon the head! I think the second your level of success becomes part of your self image you are asking for trouble. If you define yourself based on how well you are doing, it's a very dangerous path to take, though it might motivate you a lot!
In such things, I think it is important to ask - do I want to do well because I love the fight or am I drived to do it because of my insecurities. I think in real life it's a combination of both! I have seen more than my fair share of overachievers!!!
Oh yes. Start with good ol' Arvind, then T Sid, say, Ranga, Anita, and about three quarters of your class in IIT ;)
Wonder what Arvind is up to...
Heh..Arvind is in Princeton...He actually spends 2-3 hours a week interacting with a Fields Medalist..not bad huh?...
Heh...dont talk about my class!
Hey!!!
Now all that I meant was intelligent enough as far as the topic was concerned!!! :) Not in the deepest ditch on inferiority complex..so don't you worry!!! ;) lets just say that was a not so intelligent thing to say!!!
And I agree you can't be successful in getting something you don't like, but don't you think desire for success is what ultimately drives you?? Its ok to say that the rewards lie in the journey, but only as long as you do achieve that "success" per say in the end; not otherwise!
And btw you read about those two recent suicides(?) in IIT B/K?? and you going to India?? (for the 20th time that is?? :))
Hey...shh...no one should know :D..yes I am going back on the 14th..your idiot friend (KP) is coming back on the 28th..late!
Why are you not intelligent enough to comment on this post? One good reason!
Actually, thats my point! If, you are going to work on something simply because based on what you get in the end 2 things happen:
1) In the process of working, you are too worried about the final result to enjoy what you do.
2) If, you don't get it, oh well..
But, IF you enjoy what you do, and would do it anyway.
1) You enjoy your work
2) If you succeed well and good
3) If things dont work out, oh well, you had a good time doing it. And, you won't be too averse to trying again.
I think the IITK incident was not an accident. Apart from suicides, I see a lot of people get disillusioned after getting into IIT, mainly because they think getting into IIT is the end, when it is the beginning. If you get into IIT because you want to get into IIT, and not because you like math and IIT is the best place for it, you are putting yourself in a dangerous position.
Also, I think it's very hard to be good at something while not really liking! It's like knowing someone really well without liking them!!
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